A Conversation with President Jim Ryan

SHARON HOSTLER: So welcome, everyone, to our monthly session of the Retired Faculty Association. It's my pleasure to introduce President James Ryan today. He's our ninth president, and he's completing his third year in this office as of August. When we were all last together at the Boar's Head two years ago, we were welcoming and listening to President Ryan's report to date. 

And at that point, which seems like it's ancient history, Carr's Hill was under renovation and President Ryan's family was still living in Boston. And since then, a lot of things have happened, including the pandemic. I was just saying to President Ryan that one of my warm memories was of an early broadcast that he did to the community after we were in lockdown, in which his daughter, Phoebe, was coaching him from the sidelines. 

And I asked him whether that was going to be true today. So I will introduce President Ryan, and he can answer that question. Well, where is Phoebe? 

JIM RYAN: Phoebe is in school. She is a freshman at Western Albemarle, and they just started having in-person classes. So I am flying solo, which should make you as nervous as it makes me. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Now, does that mean that she's also flying solo without you as her tutor? 

JIM RYAN: [LAUGHS] She knows well enough not to have me tutor her. Her older brothers are her tutors. Once she hit sixth grade math, I was useless to her. I'm sorry to say. 

SHARON HOSTLER: It's nice to know our weaknesses. 

JIM RYAN: [LAUGHS] 

SHARON HOSTLER: And avoid them. I would say, that in the past, probably some of our weaknesses have been on online education, but the pandemic has changed that for all of higher ed. And I have a son who's a high school history teacher, and for, I think, anyone in education. And so I'm wondering what although we had to scurry to get ready, but what impact this is going to have on, I think, higher education in general. 

But also, specifically, I think people are worried about the impact at UVA and worried, specifically, about whether that means we're going to have fewer in-person classes as we go forward. And so there's several parts of that. 

JIM RYAN: So I actually think that this whole experience has reinforced the value of in-person classes and in-person experiences. I think that our faculty have done an amazing job of providing a great education as best they can online, but I think most of them would tell you that they prefer the in-person experience for most aspects of teaching. 

So if anything, I think it underscores the value of in-person classes and residentially-based education, frankly. At the same time, I think we-- So I don't think we'll see fewer in-person courses, especially for undergraduates, especially for the professional schools. clinical teaching, obviously is really difficult to do online. I do think we'll see more online offerings, but largely in the sphere of master's programs, certificate programs, the School of Continuing and Professional Studies, we already have a fair bit online. 

And I think we'll just continue to add to that stock, because we now have a lot more material, and we have a lot more faculty who have become adept at teaching courses online. But I think the core academic experience for those who are full-time students in Charlottesville will absolutely remain in person. 

SHARON HOSTLER: I think there'll be a lot of parents and faculty delighted to hear that. But are you able to give some examples of some of the innovations that you've observed with the online teaching? I personally am surprised to see either a lot of rapid adaptation and some complaints that a lot of people have gotten incredibly creative. And not just the younger faculty, I think some of the older faculty have done some fabulous jobs. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, I do too. And I've sat in on a number of classes, and I think faculty have taken advantage of the technology to really provide an engaging experience. And two things that I'll mention, but there are a number. One is that, it turns out, not surprisingly, it's a lot easier to bring in guests if they don't have to travel to Charlottesville. 

So I've talked to a lot of faculty who have brought in amazing people from, not just across the country, but around the world, to visit their classes, because all they have to do is get on Zoom. And I think that's really enhanced the experience. Another thing which seems simple, and it's not a breathtaking innovation, but is still important to acknowledge, a lot of faculty have utilized the chat function in Zoom to great effect. 

And they have noticed-- and there's research that backs this up, that you sometimes get more and different kinds of student involvement if the student can simply write in a question in the chat, rather than have to raise his or her hand, stop everyone, and all eyes turn to the student. So students who might be shy or reluctant to speak up are engaging more in online conversations than they would in real life, which is fascinating, honestly. 

SHARON HOSTLER: And I'm only familiar with Darden, who valued class participation, and of course, there was always the students who said, but I don't want to have to ask that question. And so that's going to be your group that's going to be happy to have the chat function. Another question that's unique to UVA in many ways, and that is what the tradition of student self-governance has been during this period of COVID. 

I mean, has it helped? Has it hindered? How have you accessed it? What things would you like to share with us? 

JIM RYAN: I think, overall, it's helped. I mean, students who are involved in student government and involved in some of the major organizations have had to bear a lot of weight on their shoulders. And it has been tough for them, but they've risen to the occasion. And I think, overall, it's helped us. So I'll give you a couple of examples. 

The University Judiciary Committee, UJC, has adjudicated all of the alleged violations of the health and safety protocols related to COVID. And we had to make a decision last summer because we knew we were going to put in all sorts of restrictions that we wouldn't normally have, like wearing a mask or limiting the size of gatherings or social distancing. And inevitably, not everyone would follow those protocols. 

And so the question was, well, how are we going to adjudicate those who violate those protocols? And Pat Lamkin was really firm in saying we ought to follow the process that we have in place because that's how you're going to continue to engender trust and credibility among the students. So we have a student disciplinary system in place that is largely run by students. And I think that was a smart decision. 

Now, at times have we wished that the process could be more efficient? Sure, but sometimes efficiency and credibility don't go together. And so even though I think the process, at times, has been slower than we would have liked, I think it's been more credible. 

Students have also been enormously helpful in public service campaigns in helping out their fellow students who are in isolation or quarantine. There's a campaign called YOUva Y-O-U, YOUva that is completely student-led, that has really been about encouraging adherence to public health measures. And that has been enormously helpful as well. 

But more generally, I think that the personal responsibility that comes from student self-governance, whether you're actively involved in it or not, and the sense of a shared community, has been something that we've been able to call on during a really difficult year. And I think that's helped a lot. I mean, the basic truth is that you can keep the pandemic at bay, even in a large community, if people follow simple public health measures. 

But they're difficult to follow day in and day out, wearing a mask, going to only small gatherings, staying socially distant. I mean, and to ask students to do that for now, over a year, is an awful lot. And they haven't been perfect, just like adults. Grown adults have not been perfect. 

SHARON HOSTLER: No, no. 

JIM RYAN: But they've been remarkably good. And they're the reason, honestly, why we've been able to make it as far as we can and make it as safely as we can. So I think that is connected to student self-governance. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Well, I've been thinking about the RA's and what a terrific responsibility they've had. I mean, always they've had I mean, and I've always been amazed, across grounds, about what direct primary responsibility they have. But in this time, amazing. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah. You're exactly right to call them out. I mean, it's an enormous responsibility, and a tough job, frankly. A tough job under any circumstances. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Any circumstances. 

JIM RYAN: But this year in particular, I mean, look, universities aren't made for social distancing. I mean that's kind of-- [LAUGHS] 

SHARON HOSTLER: We want our hugs, Jim. 

JIM RYAN: That's not the-- 

SHARON HOSTLER: We want our hugs. They're important. 

JIM RYAN: That's not typically why people come to a university, is, hey, what I'd love to do is come to a place where I have to stay six feet apart from everyone else and wear a mask and only see a few people at a time. So it's so countercultural, not just at UVA, but at college campuses across the country. 

SHARON HOSTLER: And it would be interesting to see, down the line, about who decided to come on grounds and who decided to stay at home and Zoom, about what their experiences are going to be. I don't know if you've had any feedback, but I think-- 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, it's a great question. It really varies. And I think there are some students who are happy they stayed home and some students who regret that they stayed home. I think there are some students who are really happy they came and some who might regret that they came. One interesting-- 

SHARON HOSTLER: Isn't that the definition of adolescence, though? 

JIM RYAN: Could be. Yeah, well, I mean, it's also the variety of personalities that you have in any large group. But one data point is we had 100 more students in the spring semester than we did in the fall. So those who-- a number of those who sat out the fall, I mean, they participated remotely, came to grounds or to Charlottesville. They lived off campus in the spring. 

SHARON HOSTLER: I was going to ask you about off grounds, but I won't do that because that's not a fair question at this point in the pandemic. But it's one of always my interests is in the community, off grounds. And especially in a time like this with isolation, it feels like that it's a double isolation, in some ways. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, depending on the living arrangement, it can be really isolating. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Right. So this is a, I would consider a stuffy question, but 

[LAUGHTER] 

Not as much fun as talking about students. 

JIM RYAN: None of your questions are stuffy. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Oh, well, this is a stuffy question. And that is, what impact the state laws and rules and regulations have-- are they going to impact, particularly in Virginia, higher ed? And are there some that may, in fact, help higher ed in it's quick recovery to a previous high? 

JIM RYAN: Well, I mean, stepping back, I will say that a number of the governor's executive orders have helped us along the way. Sometimes, we have imposed restrictions that are tighter than the governor has prescribed in his executive orders. And that can be challenging, because it can create some confusion and some question about, well, if the governor says you can have 25 people, why are you saying you have 10? 

And, obviously, it has to do with the fact that we're a densely-populated community and have a lot of people living in residence halls. But by and large, having a framework that takes the pandemic seriously, that's been the background, that has helped an awful lot. Going forward, the state and the federal government, frankly, have provided a significant amount of funding to help us offset both the costs related to COVID and lost revenues. 

And that will, obviously, help us, because it keeps us on a pretty solid financial footing. The most important issue right now, as I'm sure you know, is vaccinations. And we have been in partnership with the Blue Ridge Health District. We don't decide who gets which vaccines when, but we have offered to be of assistance, as much as we can, to get vaccines into arms as quickly as we can.

And that has been a good partnership. And the supply of vaccines, right now, is the limiting factor. It's looking brighter, right now, than it did a couple of weeks ago, and you're starting to see the supply increase. But that's going to be the ticket to a normal fall. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Well, I just have to compliment the university and my vice president, Craig Kent, because I do think that out in the community, for us, UVA, providing the vaccines, has made a huge change in what we've been able to do and in a quick mount up. I mean, particularly in the group where I live, which is the over 75's, we were saved by UVA stepping forward, and being greeted and welcomed with-- even as folks came with a lot of confusion. 

I mean, that first day, the memos went out to the parking lot attendants and to everyone around, and people weren't sure where they were supposed to be and whether this was the right place, people who didn't use UVA as is their health care provider. It was very-- I was very proud of all of us, at that point in time. 

JIM RYAN: Well, I'm really glad to hear that. I mean, they deserve an awful lot of credit. I mean, and again, it's a great partnership with the Blue Ridge Health District. But UVA was able to mobilize incredibly quickly. And there are some bumps along the way in terms of how you signed up and some confusion about that, which is to be expected. 

But it's now going incredibly smoothly and incredibly efficiently. And like I said, the limiting factor right now is the vaccines. I mean, we could be vaccinating more people than we are if we had more vaccines, which I hope are coming. 

SHARON HOSTLER: And computer literacy for the older group. I mean, access to a computer, knowing how to use it, has been another a major obstacle. I mean-- 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, yeah. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Personally, in many of my colleagues, that's what we've done is try to make that interface, because I think-- and we're, again, we're in Charlottesville. When you talk about Southwest with folks where there's not broadband, where you can't-- I mean, even if you have all the access. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, yeah. No, that's exactly right. 

SHARON HOSTLER: So continuing on with the health, always is comfortable for me, so-- 

JIM RYAN: When do we get to the law questions? 

SHARON HOSTLER: No, no, later. So the mitigation for COVID has made a huge difference. I mean we haven't had flu. The kids haven't been in the hospital with RSV. Change in colds. So what do you see is going to be our behavior? And if there's ever a post-COVID-- I mean, I'm reluctant to even use that expression, but a post-COVID-- as far as student health and as far as our behaviors on grounds and in classes. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? Because early on-- 

SHARON HOSTLER: Washing your hands is important. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah no, absolutely. So I think some of those things will continue, and I'll get to that in a second. But if you go back to the summer part of the conversation about what to expect in the fall and the winter, was the combination of COVID and the flu, and that was something that we had to wrestle with in thinking about whether we were going to have students back, whether we were going to allow in-person classes. 

And it was Craig Kent in a conversation who said, well, I mean, if people are wearing masks and they're socially distancing to prevent COVID, well, that's going to prevent the flu as well. And as a simple observation, but it proved to be true. I mean, the flu numbers are much lower than they normally would be. Same with the common cold. 

I was thinking about that just yesterday. I've not had a cold in a year, which is unusual because in a job like mine where you're traveling a lot, meeting a lot of people, shaking a lot of hands, you inevitably pick up a cold here and there. I would imagine that people will be more cognizant of washing their hands, something as simple as that. I think it will be a while before handshakes become the default greeting. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we continue to do some enhanced cleaning of dorms and classrooms. And I would not be surprised if people continue to wear masks in certain situations where the ventilation is not great and you're around a lot of people. So airports, could be in some densely packed classrooms. That one I'm not so sure about, because I don't know about you, but even a year into it, it still doesn't feel normal to wear a mask. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Yes, I wasn't a surgeon because of my fogging glasses. 

JIM RYAN: 

SHARON HOSTLER: That and a few other things. Yeah. 

JIM RYAN: Me too. 

SHARON HOSTLER: No. No, and the fact that we can go back in the gym now. Try to do cardio with the mask on. I mean-- 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no kidding. I've tried-- 

SHARON HOSTLER: --for my brain. 

JIM RYAN: No, no. Yeah, I've tried to run a few times with the mask on. It doesn't work. 

SHARON HOSTLER: And certainly, you wouldn't want to do a double mask, would you? 

JIM RYAN: No, no, no, no. Yeah, no. 

SHARON HOSTLER: No. I mean, what's happening to the-- can I ask you this? What's happening to the running community during COVID? How has that changed? 

JIM RYAN: It's still thriving virtually, but group runs are not happening. So people run with one or two people. And yeah, I mean, it's one of many things that have been disrupted by COVID. I mean, one of the things that I love the most about the running community, or part of the running community, were Wednesday morning track workouts, where you just see 40 or 50 people coming together early in the morning. 

And that's obviously not happening. But Mark Lorenzoni has done a great job of organizing races. There is a group-- I can't remember the name of it-- started, that is specifically designed to attract a diverse group of people to run together in Charlottesville City neighborhoods. And particularly trying to attract people of color into the running community. 

And you may have seen there was a story in The New York Times about it. And I think that's a great effort, and a welcome addition to the running community. But it's still going on. I ran a marathon on Sunday down at Riverview park. It was a tiny marathon that Mark Lorenzoni put on. There were 15 of us who ran the marathon. And it's very flat, but it's only two miles long, so you have to go back and forth like 12 times. 

SHARON HOSTLER: And somebody was counting for you, I hope, or were you able to remember that? 

JIM RYAN: [LAUGHS] I had to be reminded a few times. 

SHARON HOSTLER: OK, all right. Well, so we're going to move past sports and kids. What are the changes that the university has had to make, operationally? I mean, you've got everyone working at home still. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah. 

SHARON HOSTLER: And you read a lot in the paper about how-- are people going to come back into the office, and then people beginning to say that they miss-- they actually miss being in the office and they miss the camaraderie. I'm curious about whether you're looking at that return to work and what it looks as like, one of many of the operational changes that you-- 

JIM RYAN: Yeah. It's a great question. And we have started to pull together groups to address the question of what changes or innovations have we adopted during COVID that we want to continue. Because there absolutely are some. And so there's one group focused on what does work look like after COVID. There's another group focused on what innovations around academics would we like to continue. 

So I think one big change that you're going to see continue is flexibility. So flexibility about work. You're right. People differ. Some people are dying to come back into the office. Some people have discovered that it's much easier to work at home. I imagine you'll see something somewhere in the middle, where people will be able to-- they'll have to be in the office at some times, but have more opportunities to work at home than they did in the past. 

I can imagine continued flexibility around the academic calendar. So one of the things that we did this year, because we knew it was going to be an unusual year, was to include a J term class and a class from the summer session as part of normal tuition. And the thought was some students might want to spread out their classes across something closer to the calendar year rather than the academic year. 

So imagine a student who just doesn't like online classes that much, rather than having to take four at a time, could take two in the fall and one in J term, and three in the spring-- sprinkle it out. I think the ability to take courses from a distance enables flexibility. So going back to the first question about online, all of our J term courses were online, and they were free. But I think it's that combination that led to a seven-fold increase in the number of students who took a J term course. 

So there were 7,000 students who took a J term course. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Did you have to increase the number of courses offered or-- 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, we did. So we led by the provost office and by a number of deans put together, and faculty, obviously, because they're the ones who did the work. Signature courses that were supposed to be big topic questions, so it was a course about pandemics, and they were team taught, for the most part. And by all accounts, really successful. And I expect there will be larger than usual enrollments in the summer, which is also going to be online. 

Some of the other changes that I imagine will continue is we have had to collaborate across typical silos and lines and departments and offices far more than you normally would. And I bet that will continue, because we now know each other. I mean-- 

SHARON HOSTLER: 

JIM RYAN: When the pandemic hit, I was 18 months into my presidency. The chief operating officer was a year into her job. The provost was six months into her job. And Craig was three weeks into his. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Trial by fire. 

JIM RYAN: For better or for worse, it now feels like we've been working together for about a decade. And we've also gotten to know people across the university. And we've realized that, for a lot of issues, you have to bring people from different parts of the university together if you want to get a full picture of what are we doing right now, what could we be doing better. 

So just think about something as simple as testing students and then isolation and quarantine, which was key to our response to COVID. Well, you obviously need health professionals who are going to help you not only create the test, but create the lab and then think about how you're going to administer the test, but then you need people from student affairs who are going to figure out, OK, how do we best take care of students if they're in isolation and quarantine. 

Then you need people from facilities and from the chief operating officer who are going to secure the housing, which in our case, was a combination of old dorms and hotel rooms. If all those people are not in the room at the same time, you're not going to solve the problem. And so I think having flexed those muscles and develop those relationships, that will continue. 

A couple of other things. We've done more telemedicine and more teletherapy during this, and I bet that will continue as well. And we have suspended requiring students applying to provide an SAT or ACT score, just because the whole testing system has been disrupted. We've extended that for another two years and are going to look at the data and see whether that's something to continue or not. 

And I don't know at this point what we'll find. Our applications increased pretty dramatically this year, I think, in part because we went test optional. But what that does to our ability to analyze and assess the potential of students, I think it's too soon to too soon to tell. 

SHARON HOSTLER: So how did you handle the tremendous surge in admissions applications? I mean, it was major. And how did you all cope? I mean, there's certainly schools haven't sent out responses yet because they're still going through the applications. I don't know what we're doing, but-- 

JIM RYAN: Well, I believe Greg Roberts and Steve Farmer brought on more readers of applications for the first round. And frankly, they had to work harder than they ever have before to deal with the volume. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Right. And is our class going to be any bigger? Or what have we done as far as-- what do we think about acceptances? What are we aiming for? 

JIM RYAN: We're not aiming for a larger class. It's an inexact science to predict the yield, and sometimes there are surprises. But the target that we have has not increased from last year. The issue of growth comes up all the time, and I think there is room to grow on the margins and to grow strategically. But I think everyone recognizes that part of the character of this place is its size. And if you grew dramatically, UVA would no longer be UVA. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Well, because this is a faculty group, we want to know about new faculty hirings. And I'm relieved when you tell me that the finances have been eased by some of the subsidies. But I think this audience would like to-- especially those who are worrying about their positions being filled out recently-- 

JIM RYAN: Yeah. 

SHARON HOSTLER: --what hiring looks like and how that's changed. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah. So as you know, most of the hiring happens at the school level. So there's a decent amount of variation. And I think some schools are feeling the pinch more than others, honestly. To look at a macro level, and then how we view it from the center, so to speak, our costs and lost revenues from COVID were significant. 

I mean, I think over this period and into the rest of the spring and the summer, the estimate is about $140 million. Which is real money, obviously, even in a place that has a multi-billion dollar budget. But through some budget cuts to central offices, through the federal and state funding-- which is, I think, at this point, close to $80 million, which is terrific-- and then through really smart financial moves like deferring, for a year, debt payments from auxiliary units to ease the pressure on them, we're going to come out of this fine. 

Now, that doesn't mean, there aren't financial constraints. There are always financial constraints. But we have been able, especially with respect to faculty, we've been pretty successful in using the Strategic Investment funds to raise funding for faculty chairs. So we provide matching funds for donors who provide funds for faculty chairs. And we've been able to create well over 100 new chairs. 

Now, not all of them will go to new faculty, some will go to existing faculty. But retention is as important as recruitment, as you know. So we'll continue to rely on CEPH funding at the center, both for faculty chairs, but also to support cluster hires to support targets of opportunity hires, and help the strategic recruitment of faculty that are priorities for deans. 

SHARON HOSTLER: So I expect that recruiting is pretty cumbersome during this time, with having to do interviews through Zoom, but have we continued to hire and will we have new hires coming on? I mean, our do you have any idea what our new faculty hires look like at this point? 

JIM RYAN: I don't know numbers. I'd have to ask Liz. Yeah, it's-- [LAUGHS] going back to the trade off between efficiency and other values, in some ways, it's more efficient, but it may not be as productive [LAUGHS]. 

SHARON HOSTLER: We're doing an internship. I mean, tomorrow we'll find out the internship match, but hiring people you're going to live with 24/7 by Zoom feels a little strange. 

JIM RYAN: No, I know, I know, I know. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Oh. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah. No, we've had similar challenges. I mean, we have conducted searches, and are still conducting searches, for three deans. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Yeah. There was a question about how we're doing with those searches, how close we are. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah. Really well. They're all at different stages. Some are further along than others, but they have-- each one of the searches has attracted amazing candidates. I mean, really amazing candidates. And I'm confident that there are going to be-- each one of them will be successful. 

We just announced, I believe this went out, a new vice president for Student Affairs. And that was more cumbersome, like you said, because it was online. And we had finalists come to grounds, because it's such an important position, and we wanted to spend time with them in person and they wanted to see the grounds as well. 

SHARON HOSTLER: So along the lines of the finances, so what impact has the pandemic had on philanthropy? I mean, have we been able to continue with our development issues? Are there changes in focus from the people who want to give? How are we feeling about campaigns? 

JIM RYAN: It's a great question. We started off the fiscal year pretty slowly, so that's over the summer, but ended the calendar year and have continued, this year, to be really strong in development. We have seen our alumni and supporters who are not alumni have stepped up to fund a number of things related to COVID, including COVID-related research, which has been great to see. 

And overall, we are now, I think, just past the $300 million mark for this fiscal year, which is ahead of our 10-year average. So we're doing pretty well, given the pandemic. Nothing close to last year, which was a record-breaking year of $800 million. We will not get to $800 million this fiscal year, but we are 2/3 of the way to the $5 billion goal of the campaign, which is ahead of schedule. 

So I'm pretty pleased, given everything that's been going on, that philanthropy has continued, and if anything, is picking up. And our advancement team, led by Mark Llewellyn, deserves an awful lot of credit. I mean, they have not missed a beat in terms of staying engaged and keeping alumni and donors engaged. I mean, they have had more Zoom more of that than you can imagine. 

And I've had more participants, I mean, multiple times the number of participants that they would have at in-person events, both because it's much easier to turn on your Zoom than to drive across town and because it's not a lot of competing entertainment. [LAUGHS] 

SHARON HOSTLER: The programming has been great. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So-- 

SHARON HOSTLER: Yeah. And people have choices. It depends on what their undergraduate institution's doing. What their graduate institution-- 

JIM RYAN: Right, right 

SHARON HOSTLER: --other communities. Yeah. And say, well, I donated to New York Times or maybe Middlebury's conversation. 

JIM RYAN: [LAUGHS] 

SHARON HOSTLER: We're coming down to the end of our time. So on behalf of the faculty who are still here teaching, as opposed to the faculty who are Zooming in, many of whom should be kind of getting their vaccinations, there is a very self-interested question here about whether you and Dr. Kent have considered about trying to immunize for COVID, your current faculty as a group. 

I mean, we've had our public school teachers going through one system. We've got the over 75's and the over 65's, but it does somehow feel that, maybe, focus about our own community could be coming online sometime soon? 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, so those faculty who didn't fall in 1A or 1B will be part of one city. We're not at yet 1C in this health district. Some other regions in Virginia are 1C. When we get to 1C, I don't know whether there are plans to set up a vaccination site right at UVA or whether we'll continue to use the site that's on Route 29, the old Big Lots store. 

SHARON HOSTLER: We call it Big Shots now. 

JIM RYAN: I know, I love that. Yeah, very clever, very clever. [LAUGHS] So I don't know. And some of that will have to be done in consultation with the Blue Ridge Health District. But I look forward to the time when we get to 1C, for sure. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Yeah, I think we all do. But we're close, but just not close enough. We'll change our behaviors, which is the hard part. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, exactly. 

SHARON HOSTLER: And just to make your day, what are your thoughts about the future of the Greek system and secret societies at the university? 

JIM RYAN: So that's a great question. My view is, and I've said this to the leaders of the Greek system, I can't seem to find the leaders of the secret societies, they don't self-identify. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Oh, come on. 

JIM RYAN: They are defined. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Certainly they came to visit you when you were named. We know that. 

JIM RYAN: Yeah. I mean, they left me-- 

SHARON HOSTLER: Oh, yeah. 

JIM RYAN: They left me things. So what I have said to them is, the thing I would most like to see is for Greek life to become much more diverse than it is. Because I think it is an opportunity to form close friendships that last a lifetime. And it's an opportunity to create a more intimate community in a large place. 

And those are valuable things, but right now, it's not especially diverse. And I think that, if over the future, the system does not become more diverse, it could continue to be a source of controversy, and maybe even increasingly irrelevant, as students decide they would rather be among a diverse group. 

So I would love for them to be part of what I view as an ideal scenario for universities, which is, it's an opportunity for you to meet and become friends with people you never would have met otherwise, and to learn from them and to forge friendships that would last a lifetime. That can happen in all sorts of ways, but I think the Greek system could play a really important role there. And like I said, I have made that point to them every time I can. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Well, then maybe the follow up question should be, what role is the university playing-- or do you hope it might play in supporting, promoting, discussions of civility and how we model that and how do we, as a major institution in this community, how do we facilitate it? 

JIM RYAN: Yeah, it's something I've been thinking a lot about over-- well, for a long time, but especially over the last six months. It turns out that we're obviously in a polarized time. A pandemic doesn't help. People are not at their best when they're emailing or on social media. They just aren't. So in some respects, it's gotten worse-- or on Zoom, than they are in person. 

And I think that one of the most important roles for universities, and this goes back to the idea of engaging with people who are different, is to enable people to have productive and civil conversations with those they disagree with. And the polarization that exists outside of universities also exists within universities. And I think it's a real problem. 

So some of the things that we've been doing, I asked Leslie Kendrick, who is the vice dean of the law school, to chair a committee on free speech and free inquiry. And you may have heard of the Chicago principles. I don't think that we should adopt another university's principles about free speech. We have a pretty good heritage when it comes to free speech, given the connection that UVA has to both Madison and Jefferson. 

But I do think it's important for us to articulate or rearticulate, in some reasons, the importance of free speech and free inquiry as a fundamental value of UVA. Colleagues from my office have also, at my direction, been meeting with student groups that are dedicated to promoting conversation and debate across lines of difference. Not surprisingly, given that it's UVA, there are about a dozen student groups dedicated to this. 

And the question that we've been posing to them is, how can we help elevate your work? Because I think we're going to get further if this is not just from the top down, but is also led in part by students. We've also kicked off what we're calling democracy dialogues, which the first episode, for better or for worse, was on January 6, the same day that the Capitol was attacked-- 

SHARON HOSTLER: I was there. 

JIM RYAN: --in some ways, underscoring the need for democracy dialogues in an incredibly dramatic fashion. And the basic idea there is to bring in experts on topics that are important to our democracy or democracy around the world, who have different points of view, so that you not only learn from experts about an important topic, but you see how people who have different views can actually have a productive conversation. 

And that's the whole point of that. And then last, we just had another-- I think it's our third Double Take. This was virtual. And this is, really, just a storytelling event based on the NPR program, The Moth. I don't know if you've ever heard it, but it's one of my favorites. And we ask anyone who wants to submit a story, and then pick eight or so, and they would, in the past, tell it live at old Campbell Hall. They did it virtually this time. 

And it's something that I started when I was a dean of the Harvard Ed School. And I thought it would be useful for people to hear the stories of others who are in their community that they might not have heard, both to understand the simple point that everyone has a story, but also to understand that the person who you think you had nothing in common with, turns out you might have something in common with. 

And the hope is that you not only learn about the stories of eight people, but you think about-- if you're in an audience anyway-- the stories of the people to the left or the right of you. And I think that it's much easier to have a conversation where you disagree with someone you already know and trust. So in some respects, knowing someone else's story before you start talking politics is not a bad recipe for having a productive conversation. Because if you don't know their story and you assume all sorts of things, you're not going to get off to a good start. 

SHARON HOSTLER: I think that's a great ending for us. 

JIM RYAN: All right. 

SHARON HOSTLER: And I thank you for being here, and I give you the floor for any parting comments you'd like to make, but I think Double Take is now on my list. 

JIM RYAN: All right. Well, Sharon, I want to thank you for the great questions, and I want to thank everyone from the Alumni Association for putting this together. And I wish all the faculty the best. I hope you're safe and well. And I never want to pass up an opportunity to thank you for your service to UVA and your continued engagement. So thank you. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Thank you, thank you.

JIM RYAN: Yeah, it's been my pleasure. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Our pleasure. Good night. 

JIM RYAN: Hope to see you in 3D before too long. 

SHARON HOSTLER: Yes, and hope to see you a year from today, in person. And surely before then, but a year from today, perhaps. 

JIM RYAN: It's a date. All right. Take care.